So I decided to ease myself back into the game with some England, specifically William of Normady, maybe grab all those Catholic/Stamford Bridge achievements I'd been ignoring. I won the war in December 1066 by pure luck, I captured Harold in battle. Fought back Hardrade over time, got him out by 1068. Settled internal affairs.

1. Ck2 Vassalize Pope

And the Pope decided to get all pissy that I wouldn't give him Investiture. Rather than butter up to him, and partially for achievements, I popped an antipope alongside the HRE's antipope.Now, for some reason, 2 antipopes is a 60% decrease in MA. Catholicism is sitting at around 12% right now. I really don't want to watch heresy shatter the west and stop my hopes for Jerusalem, but I know that until I'm an Emperor, I can't press my Pope's claim and keep him.Should I press his claim anyways, deal with the MA, or try to unite a huge amount of people against the HRE's 30k troops to depose his?. You have several fairly valid options here.First, and, given what you say you want, probably the best option, is to put your antipope in Rome.

Sure, you won't vassalise him, but he will get a large opinion boost towards you which will make him somewhat useful to you anyway. If you have an empire later, you can always make an antipope and press his claim, so not having a vassal pope now isn't too much of a problem.Second, if you don't have the power to put your antipope in Rome, is simply to wait for the time being. Unless authority drops below 5% the pope can still call crusades, and even though you have an antipope, you can still join and win them.

The disadvantage is that heresy will spread unless you can prop up authority by other means like holy war, so it isn't all that great a long term solution.A third option, if you can't make your guy pope, but can't afford to wait around is to get rid of him. IIRC the only way to do this is to unland him, killing him just results in his successor becoming antipope. Unless you can get a legitimate reason though, you will probably have to suffer gaining some tyranny if you do this.And finally, you can always just turn to the dark side.

If Catholicism is collapsing then let it; as Europe splinters it will be ripe for conquest, provided you can ensure your own realm is united. In addition to heresies being able to holy war each other, while many heresies are a little bland, two catholic heresies have fairly useful features. Catharism, with its relative gender equality makes your realm far more versatile in many regards, as you have a wider pool of possible councillors, generals and rulers to select from. The Fraticelli heresy has almost the exact same function as Catholicism, so long as you can conquer Rome and establish the Fraticelli papacy.

Ck2 Vassalize Pope

Ok, so nothing different from Catholicism, but you get to enjoy going heretic with all the advantages of having a papacy like crusades, and the Fraticelli papacy is only a duke level title so can be vassalised (I think it starts off as a vassal when created, although even if it doesn't it would be trivial to immediately create an antipope and place him in Rome as your vassal), so if you don't have the ability to declare an Empire, yet are powerful enough to take Rome for yourself (and want to watch the catholic world burn) then it is a fairly solid option.

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